BBBT-Embryo Culture

The latest stop on the book tour is Embryo Culture by Beth Kohl. This book was a look into one woman's IVF experience and a broader look at the IVF world as a whole. The author is from the same area as I am so it was interesting to be able to recognize landmarks and places. She took us through her 1st IVF experience but really didn't discuss her second one that much except for the results. In the end, I enjoyed the book as it caused me to question my own perceptions of IVF and other ART technologies but at the same time reaffirmed our current decision. I did read parts of the book to DH but for him... his position on IVF currently isn't up for discussion so he wasn't very receptive or responsive. I have to speculate that even if he took the time to read the book in the end... he would still feel the same way. Please understand that we know that many people have had wonderful experiences and are blessed with happy and healthy children as a result but... any opinions expressed are solely mine and are not intended to offend in anyway.

Note: some of the answers have been edited from original posting as I wanted to clarify my answers.

The author also talks about how many embryos should be transferred at any given cycle. Should there be a limit?

Personally, I think there should be a limit. While there are many cases of extreme multiple pregnancies occurring without incident for the most part many of those babies start out at a disadvantage. They are younger gestational age when born then is ideal. Just because we can push the envelope doesn't always mean that we should. Perhaps my opinion is a bit tainted by someone I know who underwent IVF, implanted four embryos, gave birth to four fairly healthy babies but in the long run the stress of the infertility treatments and raising quadruplets proved too much for the marriage and they ended up divorced. Are all families this way? No.

At the same time, if I were in that situation where they had implanted over 3 embryos and they all were successful, I don't think that I could selectively reduce. Then what? While I understand fully that someone attempting an IVF cycle wants the best shot for a successful cycle... it seems to me, to much of a risk to implant more than 3 embryos. Risk for health issues for the babies and for the mother alike.

Beth Kohl discusses her fears about how IVF may lead to increased health problems for her children, and she thinks about this in the context of her daughter's surgeries for cysts on her bladder. Do you ever worry that IVF or other ART could compromise the health of your children created through the process? How has that affected your decision to pursue treatment?

Actually one of the concerns that DH and I have is about the health of the future child. Both about what if we pass down the "bad" parts of us and what if all of the medical intervention actually causes medical issues that would not have normally occurred. Until this book, I hadn't done much research about health issues that the IVF procedure might cause it was just a speculation on both of our parts. When you take control of something and override the natural steps it seems that there are bound to be repercussions in the long run. For everyone? probably not but it was interesting to read the statistics of the health issues thought to be caused by the IVF conception process. Currently, we are not pursuing treatment for many reasons but this factor is part of that decision.

Beth likens Dr. Frankfurth's office to one that "should have belonged to a family doctor in Anchorage, circa 1950, and not to a late twentieth century endocrinologist." How much do appearances matter? What were your first impressions of your RE's office? Did/does that color your interactions with the RE himself or herself?


I haven't actually been to the RE's office. My husband has but I have been dealing with a regular endocrinologist. Due to the nature of the relationship between my previous internist and the endocrinologist that she referred me to I had a good deal of confidence in his ability and his patient care philosophy. They share the same office and the same staff. Since all my previous dealings with her had been fine and not problematic, I had no reason to think that something would be awry. However, the first time that I met with him, he was running over an hour behind with no one notifying us previously. Also, he is very flamboyant and he talked over both of us several times. I continued to see him for a few years but now I am on the search for another endocrinologist because I have decided that I just don't want to deal with a doctor who stresses me out. He never runs on time, his office staff screws up messages and medicine refills every time, and during the appointment I am so frustrated and upset from having to wait forever that I just don't want to go over everything with him for the millionth time because he can't read my chart before he comes in the door. I had high hopes and he didn't live up to them so now I have given up on both of those doctors in exchange for a more organized clinic and a harder to get in schedule usually... but I am okay with that as long as the whole event of going to the doctor doesn't stress me out.

So my first impressions were wrong and in the end just made it harder for me to take care of my medical issues.


Beth makes certain that she tracks how she and her husband respond to infertility in different ways - through diagnosis, debates about treatment, and how infertility is perceived in the "normal" world. Do you find such differences between yourself and your significant other(s)? Was it difficult to determine upon a course of treatment due to those differences?

Until recently, we have been on the same page. We both felt that a medically assisted pregnancy was not in the cards for us and that there were other parenting options out there to explore. The more we look at those other options, the more frustrated I get because of the amount of inspection into our daily lives. I don't think right now I would be a candiate for a successful medically assisted pregnancy anyhow due to other medical issues and my weight. But... the more desperate I become to make us a family... the more options I am willing to explore. Does that mean that we will pursue IVF---most likely not. But maybe we are overlooking some of the smaller and less invasive treatments that are around. So until recently... no, there was no difficulty is working out a treatment plan because there wasn't one. In the future... maybe.

In terms of emotional response, there has been a difference. My husband tends to be more emotional then most men I know but for some reason within this journey, I think he feels he needs to be the strong one because I have been so raw and over emotional at times. I have felt at times that he has withdrawn from me because I am in the middle of an emotional crisis and he can't fix it nor can he understand it. But at the same time I think he has pulled away because he is afraid that his display of emotions would make things worse. All I know is that there have been several moments over the past several years that I have felt that he just didn't care enough about the "issue". Don't get me wrong... the majority of the time, he will just hold me when I cry and for the most part that is enough but ...


Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: The Mistress's Daughter by A.M. Homes (with author participation!)

BBBT-- Love and Other Impossible Pursuits

The latest book for the Barren Bitches Book Tour has been Love and Other Impossible Pursuits by Ayelet Waldman. It follows a woman through the adventures of step parenting and infant loss. The relationship between Emilia and William was interesting to see unfold. Emilia's thoughts about William intrigued me. I know that it is hard to learn to love another's child and I thought this particular relationship was difficult because of William's personality. The book was thought provoking and worth a read if you don't mind emotional story lines.

On to the questions, There were many thought provoking questions to choose from which is great but I am limited on time so I only chose three:



Is the way Emilia quantifies loss similar or dissimilar to what we all tend to do? (i.e. her reactions to the miscarriages of a friend and the number of names on a heart of another participant at the walk) Why or why don't we do this?


I think that Emilia is reacting that way that many people do. In my opinion, Emilia's view of others pain was tainted by her belief that she smothered her child.
Everyone of us will most likely believe, in the height of our grief, that our loss is the worst in the world. It is... in our own personal world. Reality is that each loss that a person experiences is at that moment or that period of time, the worst thing that they have gone through. Does it mean that a person who experiences a miscarriage and the loss of the hope of life that goes with it is any less hurt than the woman who has lost her child to preterm birth or the woman that experiences a SIDS death? I don't think so because each of us only has our own rose colored glasses to look through.Yes, we can sympathize and empathize but until it has happened to us, we just don't know the degree of pain.

I do think that some people feel that their pain supersedes others but is it right? I don't think so. Pain is pain, and loss is loss. Yes, there are degrees of loss and some do impact our lives more than others but at one point in every event, we are all experiencing the same loss of hope and level of pain.


Emilia obviously deals with some self-destructive tendencies. Can you relate to her feelings? Have you dealt with self-destructive feelings on your journey to parenthood?

The feeling of failure can be overwhelming at times. Yes, I have acted out in a self destructive manner many times over the last four years. I have a variety of methods... binge eating, drinking in excess, being a awful wife in many ways, and withdrawal from others. The worst days I attempt to soothe myself with all of them. I have found that it doesn't help and makes things worse but it is in and of itself a vicious circle that leads to more self destructive behavior.


Emilia describes in great detail her feelings of guilt regarding Isabel's death. For those of you who have experienced loss, did you feel responsible in some way? How did you handle those feelings?

My situation is unique in that I did not know that I was pregnant when I miscarried. I did not even realize at the time that I was miscarrying. By the time things got sorted out it was long after the fact and the certainty is questionable. The symptoms were there, the timing was right, but I didn't test until after the "weird period with a passing of a large amount of tissue" had occurred. I believe that what I experienced was a miscarriage. More than one doctor has alluded to it but no one has ever come out and said yes... that is what happened. They can't, I get that but others believe that since doctors never said it, it wasn't true. Whatever I experienced, I do feel responsible. I do feel that I am the reason we are childless. On the day that the event occurred, I had overexerted myself for several hours. If I could go back in time, I never would have completed the activity that I did. The money that I received for that day of strenuous work is not worth the pain, hurt, and agony that I have gone through since that time. Yes... I believe that I am responsible for the fact that we don't have a three year old child right now and I don't handle those feelings well. I turn to my self soothing, yet, destructive behaviors and have had many moments of tears, agony, and self defeating thoughts. With time, it gets better but at the same time, this whole journey is tainted by the thoughts that I killed our chance of hope. I keep these feelings to myself... because I am the only one that believes this happened to me. When we are "trying", I am overcautious in the 2WW period of my cycle. I don't want to have to face the feelings of responsibility again if I can help it.

Now head on over to the book tour hub and check out the other blogs participating in this discussion.Want to come along for the next tour? Sign up begins today for tour #7 (Happiness Sold Separately by Lolly Winston) and all are welcome to join along

"The Kid" by Dan Savage---BBBT

The latest leg of the Barren Bitches Book Tour has been The Kid by Dan Savage. It is a non fiction account of two gay men who are involved in an open adoption. It takes a look at why they decided to adopt, other methods for becoming parents, and the adoption process from start to finish. I have never read Dan Savage's sex advice column before but his style of writing is appealing to me. I will probably seek out the other books that he has written about his family and look for his advice column. The book, at times, invoked strong emotion from me. I wish that instead of reading aloud Not Buying It during our vacation that I had chosen this one instead as I would really love to see DH's response to this book. I know that the Rutherford B Finger chapter would turn him off, however, I don't think that he is alone in that. I had a hard time relating that chapter to the rest of the book. Overall, it was a good book and I will recommend it in the future.

If you were participating in an open adoption, what are the top three questions you would ask the birth mother?

Hmm... I think I would ask pretty basic questions:

1. Why are you putting the child up for adoption?

2. How much contact do you want?

3. Any special talents and/or conditions in either family to watch for?

Savage refers to children in foster care as "damaged goods." How did you react to this? Did you find it offensive or an honest way of expressing why people choose to adopt a newborn rather than a waiting child?

This reference did disturb me when I first read it. After completing the book, I understand his need for using that term. One only has to search on Adopt US Kids briefly to learn that there are very few children that don't have at least minor special needs in any category. My husband and I have been struggling with this decision. In some ways, we feel, that this is an opportunity to take the less traveled road and do some good but on the other hand, it might be easier just to not have to face a difficult situation. Savage's comments about not wanting to "start parenting at a disadvantage" and later on about wanting to start with an even playing field even if there was no guarantee really hit home. I think that many people realize that even with adopting an infant, there is still a chance that something is wrong or may end up wrong later on. However, only with an older child are you 90% certain that some issue will have to be addressed from the beginning. Reality is that everyone has issues and most of them stem from something in childhood. No matter how hard a parent tries, their child will not always be the perfect image of their dreams. However, it does take a special kind of strength to step out of the expected and face the difficult reality.

I think that his comments are an honest portrayal of the children in state care and what many people think about dealing with the issues that these children have.

On p. 164, Dan is terrified of bringing baby items into the house before the adoption is finalized. Will you (or did you) bring items into the house before a birth or an adoption?

Actually, I have changed my opinion on this. Before, I was pro shower, pro preparation. These days... honestly, I think the only thing we will do if we are ever blessed with a child is to clean and paint the room that they would be using and buy a car seat if the child is an infant/toddler. Obviously, we may need to change that theory when it gets closer but I don't want a nursery/child's room all done up and then suffer a loss of any kind. Even if we somehow manage to get pregnant, I don't really want a shower until after the fact. I had changed my opinion before reading the book but I understood where Dan was coming from with that point.

What do you think DJ will think when he reads this book down the line?

I think that if DJ reads the book when he is older it will solidify his understanding of his parents. If he reads it when he is old enough to be considering children, I think that he will understand that his own fears are common. The book doesn't, in my humble opinion, portray anything negative about the process or his fathers feelings about him. There is the part about not feeling bonded right away but if you think of it in a typical Mother/Father situation, I think that a lot of fathers feel the same way at first. But, I don't feel that it should be a contention point if he reads it since I am sure that by now there is a definite bond believe the two.



Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Love, and Other Impossible Pursuits by Ayelet Waldman (with author participation!).