The latest choice for the BBBT is The Empty Picture Frame by Jenna and Mike Nadeau. The book is a journal/memoir with interesting information for people that are unfamiliar with infertility. This was the book that I read aloud in the car on our vacation. While I found it very informative and supportive, my DH was actually disturbed by the realistic account of the IF treatments and it helped solidify his opinion that IVF is not the route that we should go. We had very different takes on the experiences recounted in the book but at the same time found some common ground on thoughts and feelings of both Jenna and Mike.
This is definitely a worthy read if you are at all interested in infertility and how it impacts some one's life. There are already two people on my "can I borrow that" list including the person who gifted it to me after I mentioned it briefly in passing one day. I hope that they get as much out of it as I did.
On to the Questions:
What one line from The Empty Picture Frame did you identify with and why? On Page 139 there is a journal entry written by Jenna about how difficult this journey can be on a marriage. I started crying while I was reading this section because of a few points in this passage where I felt she was dictating my thoughts but the line that really impacted me was a bit surprising: " In the midst of my emotional battles, I often misunderstood his level-headedness for ambivalence". For some reason, at that time, that line just truly spoke to me. Partially because I have felt this way at many moments along our journey and partially because I can't always quite read what my husband is feeling/thinking about this part of our lives. I still think some of his inaction is ambivalence but that has been more recent than when we were reading this book together.
The last chapter is a guide to the fertiles reading the book on how to respond and not respond to a situation. Some of the reactions and commentary has happened to many people. What was the best reaction you got to your story and what was the worst? The best reaction that I got was the person who asked "what's next?" It made me feel like they truly understood that this is not a dead end but that we need to find our path right now. The worst reaction has been my MIL who after telling us that she had plenty of grandchildren (4) when the youngest was born has now decided that we are wrong and that we will have children. Each time the topic come up (usually by her) she is more and more forceful that we will have children. She really hurt me at that time when she told us not to bother in the middle of a group and now it is just annoying that she is so totally convinced that we are wrong.
Jenna discusses how difficult it became for her to go to family events which centered on children while she remained childless. Have you had this experience too? How have you managed to cope with family gatherings? The hardest family events for me typically revolve around one of my "nieces". She is the youngest and my "probable but not confirmed" miscarriage occurred when my family member was about 4/5 months pregnant with her. Of course, since I was clueless at the time the impact was later on after discussing things with the drs about what happened. I am always very emotional around her birthday because if things had gone the way that it seems they should have she would have had a close playmate and well, I would be a mother now 4 years later, instead of still on the sidelines. I was really worried this year because there was a pregnant woman at her birthday party but I feel that I handled it with grace and while I was quiet, I wasn't crying so that is an improvement. Holidays are pretty hard on me in general just because as each one passes it means that more time has gone by and still my arms and heart are empty.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at Stirrup Queens (http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/). You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Eat, Pray, Love by Elizabeth Gilbert.
Showing posts with label BBBT. Show all posts
Showing posts with label BBBT. Show all posts
Wednesday, July 09, 2008
Sunday, May 25, 2008
BBBT--Wa.ter for Elep;hants
This book tour's selection was Wat.er For Elep.hants by Sara Gruen. I really enjoyed this book and if you haven't read it, I recommend adding it to your to-be-read list. I picked it up on a Friday and was finished by Sunday night. The characters are very compelling and well, I love the circus so it was a fun but interesting book to read. The amount of research that the author did to ensure that the time period was accurately portrayed was very refreshing and made for a wonderful novel. Anyhow...
Questions:
What is your favorite circus related memory?
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: The Empty Picture Frame by Jenna Nadeau (with author participation because she's a blogger!)
Questions:
What is your favorite circus related memory?
I went to the circus a few times as a kid but my favorite Circus memories were at the Circus Museum in Baraboo, Wi. I got to ride an elephant. The elephant was decked out in full costume and the ride was just around the circle but being so high up and on top of a powerful animal that could at any moment just change it's mind and run wild was pretty cool for a 12 year old. But at the same time, there is something truly amazing about such a large animal that is tame enough to allow children to pull it's ears. It is one place that I would love to go back to as an adult and see just how my younger self saw things differently.
On page 109, old Jacob complains about how his family keeps secrets from him: "And those are just the things I know about. There are a host of others they don't mention because they don't want to upset me. I've caught wind of several, but when I ask questions, they clam right up. Mustn't upset Grandpa, you know... Why? That's what I want to know. I hate this bizarre policy of protective exclusion, because it effectively writes me off the page. If I don't know about what's going on in their lives, how am I supposed to insert myself in the conversation?... I've decided it's not about me at all. It's a protective mechanism for them, a way of buffering themselves against my future death..." Reading this, I could see myself in both Jacob & in his family members, both in respect to our infertility situation and other matters. Whose viewpoint do you relate to most in this passage and why?
I would have to say that it depends on the person that I am dealing with. We have some family members and others that we are more apt to share things in a more open manner but there are other family members that don't really need to know. I know that part of the reason that we aren't open with those other family members is that they are not open with us. The relationship needs to be two ways. However, when concerned with a person's age and health, while I do agree that sometimes things need a bit of a buffer, I feel that if it is something that you would have shared with them all along then it should be shared regardless of the situation. I do think that as people realize that others are moving on either in age or in life that it is very easy to pull away when you think that the relationship is going to end in one form or another. I don't like that reaction but I think it is a very common reaction to potential change.
Something that struck me about this book in particular was the rich, descriptive way the author handled Jacob as an elderly man. His frustration was so apparent, his physical manifestation so perfectly described, that of all of the elements of this book Jacob the Elderly is what stays with me. You had the sense that Jacob didn't foresee his latter years being the way they were, and his almost "ride off into the sunset" ending perhaps what he had envisaged for his end. Do you think about what's at the end of the road someday? When you think about it, what do you see for yourself?
If I get to choose, I would like to die without much complication and with most of my sensibilities. When I was 18, I was added to the list of the family members who took care of my Grandma when she was in her 80's. She wasn't diagnosed with Alzheimer's but she did have a case of dementia and lost control of most of her bodily functions. I took 2 or 3 of the 5 days and then they each took one day a week. My uncle lived with her so he covered the weekends. It was not a fun experience. She was mean and ornery most of the time and at other times she was as loving as she could be. She didn't like to get up in the morning and would sleep all day if allowed. It was hard and it was a situation that I would not want to be in again on either side. I feel for those taking care of their loved ones when they need much help. While it is a great sacrifice, it is one that I hope to never ask someone to make. It is hard both emotionally and physically. Plus, I often thought that there were many times that my Grandma questioned why she had to live so long to have her granddaughter change her depends.
On the other hand, my Grandpa on my father's side is in his 90's and is still very independent. He drives for very short distances and is very computer literate. He is often quiet but doesn't seem to lose his place in conversations and events. He seems to have very few age related issues and just moves a bit slower. He has lived an active life and still gardens to the best of his ability. He is aging gracefully and this is how I would like to age.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: The Empty Picture Frame by Jenna Nadeau (with author participation because she's a blogger!)
Saturday, March 01, 2008
BBBT-Embryo Culture
The latest stop on the book tour is Embryo Culture by Beth Kohl. This book was a look into one woman's IVF experience and a broader look at the IVF world as a whole. The author is from the same area as I am so it was interesting to be able to recognize landmarks and places. She took us through her 1st IVF experience but really didn't discuss her second one that much except for the results. In the end, I enjoyed the book as it caused me to question my own perceptions of IVF and other ART technologies but at the same time reaffirmed our current decision. I did read parts of the book to DH but for him... his position on IVF currently isn't up for discussion so he wasn't very receptive or responsive. I have to speculate that even if he took the time to read the book in the end... he would still feel the same way. Please understand that we know that many people have had wonderful experiences and are blessed with happy and healthy children as a result but... any opinions expressed are solely mine and are not intended to offend in anyway.
Note: some of the answers have been edited from original posting as I wanted to clarify my answers.
The author also talks about how many embryos should be transferred at any given cycle. Should there be a limit?
Personally, I think there should be a limit. While there are many cases of extreme multiple pregnancies occurring without incident for the most part many of those babies start out at a disadvantage. They are younger gestational age when born then is ideal. Just because we can push the envelope doesn't always mean that we should. Perhaps my opinion is a bit tainted by someone I know who underwent IVF, implanted four embryos, gave birth to four fairly healthy babies but in the long run the stress of the infertility treatments and raising quadruplets proved too much for the marriage and they ended up divorced. Are all families this way? No.
At the same time, if I were in that situation where they had implanted over 3 embryos and they all were successful, I don't think that I could selectively reduce. Then what? While I understand fully that someone attempting an IVF cycle wants the best shot for a successful cycle... it seems to me, to much of a risk to implant more than 3 embryos. Risk for health issues for the babies and for the mother alike.
Beth Kohl discusses her fears about how IVF may lead to increased health problems for her children, and she thinks about this in the context of her daughter's surgeries for cysts on her bladder. Do you ever worry that IVF or other ART could compromise the health of your children created through the process? How has that affected your decision to pursue treatment?
Actually one of the concerns that DH and I have is about the health of the future child. Both about what if we pass down the "bad" parts of us and what if all of the medical intervention actually causes medical issues that would not have normally occurred. Until this book, I hadn't done much research about health issues that the IVF procedure might cause it was just a speculation on both of our parts. When you take control of something and override the natural steps it seems that there are bound to be repercussions in the long run. For everyone? probably not but it was interesting to read the statistics of the health issues thought to be caused by the IVF conception process. Currently, we are not pursuing treatment for many reasons but this factor is part of that decision.
Beth likens Dr. Frankfurth's office to one that "should have belonged to a family doctor in Anchorage, circa 1950, and not to a late twentieth century endocrinologist." How much do appearances matter? What were your first impressions of your RE's office? Did/does that color your interactions with the RE himself or herself?
I haven't actually been to the RE's office. My husband has but I have been dealing with a regular endocrinologist. Due to the nature of the relationship between my previous internist and the endocrinologist that she referred me to I had a good deal of confidence in his ability and his patient care philosophy. They share the same office and the same staff. Since all my previous dealings with her had been fine and not problematic, I had no reason to think that something would be awry. However, the first time that I met with him, he was running over an hour behind with no one notifying us previously. Also, he is very flamboyant and he talked over both of us several times. I continued to see him for a few years but now I am on the search for another endocrinologist because I have decided that I just don't want to deal with a doctor who stresses me out. He never runs on time, his office staff screws up messages and medicine refills every time, and during the appointment I am so frustrated and upset from having to wait forever that I just don't want to go over everything with him for the millionth time because he can't read my chart before he comes in the door. I had high hopes and he didn't live up to them so now I have given up on both of those doctors in exchange for a more organized clinic and a harder to get in schedule usually... but I am okay with that as long as the whole event of going to the doctor doesn't stress me out.
So my first impressions were wrong and in the end just made it harder for me to take care of my medical issues.
Beth makes certain that she tracks how she and her husband respond to infertility in different ways - through diagnosis, debates about treatment, and how infertility is perceived in the "normal" world. Do you find such differences between yourself and your significant other(s)? Was it difficult to determine upon a course of treatment due to those differences?
Until recently, we have been on the same page. We both felt that a medically assisted pregnancy was not in the cards for us and that there were other parenting options out there to explore. The more we look at those other options, the more frustrated I get because of the amount of inspection into our daily lives. I don't think right now I would be a candiate for a successful medically assisted pregnancy anyhow due to other medical issues and my weight. But... the more desperate I become to make us a family... the more options I am willing to explore. Does that mean that we will pursue IVF---most likely not. But maybe we are overlooking some of the smaller and less invasive treatments that are around. So until recently... no, there was no difficulty is working out a treatment plan because there wasn't one. In the future... maybe.
In terms of emotional response, there has been a difference. My husband tends to be more emotional then most men I know but for some reason within this journey, I think he feels he needs to be the strong one because I have been so raw and over emotional at times. I have felt at times that he has withdrawn from me because I am in the middle of an emotional crisis and he can't fix it nor can he understand it. But at the same time I think he has pulled away because he is afraid that his display of emotions would make things worse. All I know is that there have been several moments over the past several years that I have felt that he just didn't care enough about the "issue". Don't get me wrong... the majority of the time, he will just hold me when I cry and for the most part that is enough but ...
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: The Mistress's Daughter by A.M. Homes (with author participation!)
Note: some of the answers have been edited from original posting as I wanted to clarify my answers.
The author also talks about how many embryos should be transferred at any given cycle. Should there be a limit?
Personally, I think there should be a limit. While there are many cases of extreme multiple pregnancies occurring without incident for the most part many of those babies start out at a disadvantage. They are younger gestational age when born then is ideal. Just because we can push the envelope doesn't always mean that we should. Perhaps my opinion is a bit tainted by someone I know who underwent IVF, implanted four embryos, gave birth to four fairly healthy babies but in the long run the stress of the infertility treatments and raising quadruplets proved too much for the marriage and they ended up divorced. Are all families this way? No.
At the same time, if I were in that situation where they had implanted over 3 embryos and they all were successful, I don't think that I could selectively reduce. Then what? While I understand fully that someone attempting an IVF cycle wants the best shot for a successful cycle... it seems to me, to much of a risk to implant more than 3 embryos. Risk for health issues for the babies and for the mother alike.
Beth Kohl discusses her fears about how IVF may lead to increased health problems for her children, and she thinks about this in the context of her daughter's surgeries for cysts on her bladder. Do you ever worry that IVF or other ART could compromise the health of your children created through the process? How has that affected your decision to pursue treatment?
Actually one of the concerns that DH and I have is about the health of the future child. Both about what if we pass down the "bad" parts of us and what if all of the medical intervention actually causes medical issues that would not have normally occurred. Until this book, I hadn't done much research about health issues that the IVF procedure might cause it was just a speculation on both of our parts. When you take control of something and override the natural steps it seems that there are bound to be repercussions in the long run. For everyone? probably not but it was interesting to read the statistics of the health issues thought to be caused by the IVF conception process. Currently, we are not pursuing treatment for many reasons but this factor is part of that decision.
Beth likens Dr. Frankfurth's office to one that "should have belonged to a family doctor in Anchorage, circa 1950, and not to a late twentieth century endocrinologist." How much do appearances matter? What were your first impressions of your RE's office? Did/does that color your interactions with the RE himself or herself?
I haven't actually been to the RE's office. My husband has but I have been dealing with a regular endocrinologist. Due to the nature of the relationship between my previous internist and the endocrinologist that she referred me to I had a good deal of confidence in his ability and his patient care philosophy. They share the same office and the same staff. Since all my previous dealings with her had been fine and not problematic, I had no reason to think that something would be awry. However, the first time that I met with him, he was running over an hour behind with no one notifying us previously. Also, he is very flamboyant and he talked over both of us several times. I continued to see him for a few years but now I am on the search for another endocrinologist because I have decided that I just don't want to deal with a doctor who stresses me out. He never runs on time, his office staff screws up messages and medicine refills every time, and during the appointment I am so frustrated and upset from having to wait forever that I just don't want to go over everything with him for the millionth time because he can't read my chart before he comes in the door. I had high hopes and he didn't live up to them so now I have given up on both of those doctors in exchange for a more organized clinic and a harder to get in schedule usually... but I am okay with that as long as the whole event of going to the doctor doesn't stress me out.
So my first impressions were wrong and in the end just made it harder for me to take care of my medical issues.
Beth makes certain that she tracks how she and her husband respond to infertility in different ways - through diagnosis, debates about treatment, and how infertility is perceived in the "normal" world. Do you find such differences between yourself and your significant other(s)? Was it difficult to determine upon a course of treatment due to those differences?
Until recently, we have been on the same page. We both felt that a medically assisted pregnancy was not in the cards for us and that there were other parenting options out there to explore. The more we look at those other options, the more frustrated I get because of the amount of inspection into our daily lives. I don't think right now I would be a candiate for a successful medically assisted pregnancy anyhow due to other medical issues and my weight. But... the more desperate I become to make us a family... the more options I am willing to explore. Does that mean that we will pursue IVF---most likely not. But maybe we are overlooking some of the smaller and less invasive treatments that are around. So until recently... no, there was no difficulty is working out a treatment plan because there wasn't one. In the future... maybe.
In terms of emotional response, there has been a difference. My husband tends to be more emotional then most men I know but for some reason within this journey, I think he feels he needs to be the strong one because I have been so raw and over emotional at times. I have felt at times that he has withdrawn from me because I am in the middle of an emotional crisis and he can't fix it nor can he understand it. But at the same time I think he has pulled away because he is afraid that his display of emotions would make things worse. All I know is that there have been several moments over the past several years that I have felt that he just didn't care enough about the "issue". Don't get me wrong... the majority of the time, he will just hold me when I cry and for the most part that is enough but ...
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: The Mistress's Daughter by A.M. Homes (with author participation!)
Monday, January 28, 2008
BBBT-Jane Austen Book Club
Whoops... I forgot to post this!
The latest book for the BBBT was Jane Austen Book Club. While this was a good read, for me it didn't live up to the hype. Maybe because I haven't read much Austen? Anyhow... on to the questions.
Did you find the allusions to the various Austin books distracting or helpful in understanding the characters in the book? Were there enough similarities to Austin's characters for you to distinguish who was who (i.e. Jocelyn = Emma)?
I found the references helpful since I haven't actually read much of Austen's works. I know the basic plots of the major works. I think there were enough for some characters but not enough for others... such as Grigg for me.
On page 5 of my edition, at the end of the Prologue, the narrator says: "The six of us -- Jocelyn, Bernadette, Sylvia, Allegra, Prudie, and Grigg -- made up the full roster of the Central Valley/River City all-Jane-Austen-all-the-time book club." Each of the six is featured in the book, and voices intimate thoughts & memories, yet throughout, the narrator maintains the voice of "we." Which of the characters is the narrator telling the story/writing the book? And if you don't know or have an opinion, which character would be the most likely narrator & why?
Honestly... I thought that the narrator voice was Jocelyn. She seemed the strongest voice throughout the novel.
Happiness seemed to be a reoccurring topic throughout the book. Sylvia and Bernadette seemed to be polar opposites in how they reacted to things in life and how they viewed happiness. Do you identify with one of these ladies over the other? Explain. Did another character speak to you instead? Who and why?
My outlook on life seems more aligned with Sylvia. I tend to be the one that holds things back. It is very obvious when I am happy because most of the rest of the time I tend to be more stoic in my emotions to people that are not in my "inner" circle per say.
Allegra is described as "liking being an aunt. That it offered all the kid time she needed. Probably. All she wanted mostly." If you don't have your own children, but are an aunt how important is that role to you and, what special rewards does it offer?
It depends on which kids! To some of my nieces and nephews, I get to be the one that they can pal around with and joke with differently then with mom and dad. To others, I am just someone who buys them gifts. I like being an aunt but still think that being a mom is a better role. Special rewards? Well, it is always nice when they run up and hug ya out of a group!
When Corinne stole Allegra's stories, she both lied by omission as well as stole pieces of Allegra. Do you believe Allegra was more upset about the lie or the fact that someone stole her stories?
I personally thought that she was more upset about the fact that Corinne hid the fact that she was using Allegra's stories to try and earn money. I think maybe if she would have informed her, she probably would have been okay with it since she loves her but the fact that it was all done behind her back was the issue.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Embryo Culture by Beth Kohl (with author participation!)
The latest book for the BBBT was Jane Austen Book Club. While this was a good read, for me it didn't live up to the hype. Maybe because I haven't read much Austen? Anyhow... on to the questions.
Did you find the allusions to the various Austin books distracting or helpful in understanding the characters in the book? Were there enough similarities to Austin's characters for you to distinguish who was who (i.e. Jocelyn = Emma)?
I found the references helpful since I haven't actually read much of Austen's works. I know the basic plots of the major works. I think there were enough for some characters but not enough for others... such as Grigg for me.
On page 5 of my edition, at the end of the Prologue, the narrator says: "The six of us -- Jocelyn, Bernadette, Sylvia, Allegra, Prudie, and Grigg -- made up the full roster of the Central Valley/River City all-Jane-Austen-all-the-time book club." Each of the six is featured in the book, and voices intimate thoughts & memories, yet throughout, the narrator maintains the voice of "we." Which of the characters is the narrator telling the story/writing the book? And if you don't know or have an opinion, which character would be the most likely narrator & why?
Honestly... I thought that the narrator voice was Jocelyn. She seemed the strongest voice throughout the novel.
Happiness seemed to be a reoccurring topic throughout the book. Sylvia and Bernadette seemed to be polar opposites in how they reacted to things in life and how they viewed happiness. Do you identify with one of these ladies over the other? Explain. Did another character speak to you instead? Who and why?
My outlook on life seems more aligned with Sylvia. I tend to be the one that holds things back. It is very obvious when I am happy because most of the rest of the time I tend to be more stoic in my emotions to people that are not in my "inner" circle per say.
Allegra is described as "liking being an aunt. That it offered all the kid time she needed. Probably. All she wanted mostly." If you don't have your own children, but are an aunt how important is that role to you and, what special rewards does it offer?
It depends on which kids! To some of my nieces and nephews, I get to be the one that they can pal around with and joke with differently then with mom and dad. To others, I am just someone who buys them gifts. I like being an aunt but still think that being a mom is a better role. Special rewards? Well, it is always nice when they run up and hug ya out of a group!
When Corinne stole Allegra's stories, she both lied by omission as well as stole pieces of Allegra. Do you believe Allegra was more upset about the lie or the fact that someone stole her stories?
I personally thought that she was more upset about the fact that Corinne hid the fact that she was using Allegra's stories to try and earn money. I think maybe if she would have informed her, she probably would have been okay with it since she loves her but the fact that it was all done behind her back was the issue.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Embryo Culture by Beth Kohl (with author participation!)
Tuesday, October 30, 2007
BBBT--Happiness Sold Seperately
This Book Tour round is Happiness Sold Separately by Lolly Winston. I really enjoyed this book. I had listened to it on audio book previously and would find myself laughing aloud at the gym and then when I read it this time around I was still laughing at moments. I was pleased that it didn't necessarily turn out to be the Happy, romantic tale that could have been written on the subject. I don't usually read books more than once but for some reason this one has pulled me in and I'm thinking I might pick it up again.
In the beginning of Chapter 4, Elinor finds it difficult to look at a newborn and its mother in the seat next to her. She says she isn't so much sad that she can't have a baby of her own but that she can't give her husband a child. Do you find your infertility more painful because of your desire to experience pregnancy and childbirth or because of your desire to see your spouse as a father?
I would have to say that it has more to due with the desire to see DH as a dad then the actual pregnant part of it. I never really wanted to get pregnant until I wanted to have "his" child. Adoption had always been the prominent choice in my head until that moment that some natural desire came over me to procreate with my husband. It doesn't really make it any easier but as I continue to remind myself that the goal is to parent, not necessarily be pregnant, the pain seems to lessen until the next person gets pregnant most likely.
I feel like the author was trying to show all sides of these complicated relationships, wanting you to sympathize with Elinor, Ted, Gina and Toby. Did you find yourself able to sympathize, or at least not dislike, all of these characters?
Definitely, even though Ted's behavior was out of line, I still found myself wanting his marriage to ride out the difficult times. Toby, well, I liked him. Winston definitely portrayed a confused 10 year old and one that is a bit offbeat at the same time. Gina and Elinor seemed to be polar opposites and they were both interesting in their unique way.
Elinor's thought on page 47 really struck me: "When Elinor was paying attention to her career, she should have been paying attention to her biological clock. When she was paying attention to her biological clock, she should have been paying attention to her husband." It made me wonder: Am I paying attention now to the things I should be paying attention to now? Are you?
No, I don't think I am paying attention to what I should be. I should be focusing on losing weight, exercising, and getting involved in the community. Yet, I am paralyzed in all ways to do anything about any of it. I let work overrun my schedule so that I don't have time to work out or to volunteer. I run out of the house without preplanning my food for the road. So, no, I am not paying attention to what I should be paying attention to and my dh gets the backlash of anger based on the disappointment from not doing what I know I should be doing instead of what I am doing. I have to focus on my health though... If I don't, pregnancy will never be an option and I won't live as long as I could.
Elinor takes up laundry and Ted works on the hutch. What new hobbies did you pick up or abandon during treatments?
I wish... I have some hobby items stored away that never get worked on. I have a gym membership that is rarely used. I wish that those activities would take the mind into a different direction. I will say that I have immersed myself in books and movies though at times when the angst has been too great to do much else.
How did you feel about Toby? Do you think he manipulated the situation too much? Was it strange to you that Ted was willing to be a father figure to Toby, but did not want to talk about adoption with Elinor?
I thought that Toby was a typical 10 year old that was a bit out of the mainstream. He got tossed into a situation that he didn't want to be in. He was feeling rejection from his father and step mom since they basically kicked him out and sent him to live with Gina, who he did not really like. Toby didn't seem to really like anything about his mother or her life. I think that part of it was typical preteen behavior but part of it was that he thought she could do better and he was grabbing at that with Ted. He knew that even though Ted was married he was the best choice that Gina had made in dating over the past several attempts.
With the exception of the mall scene for the Tutoring interview, I really didn't feel that he was manipulating anything. I think that any kid, who really wanted better for both himself and his mom, probably would have done the same.
I really didn't find it too odd that Ted was willing to be a mentor to Toby and wasn't all that thrilled with the thought of adoption. The process of adoption is very invasive just like other fertility treatments. Tutoring and mentoring Toby was just something that could fill time and would keep him close to Gina, who I think in the end, he was really in love with even though he still loved Elinor.
Intrigued by the idea of a book tour? Jump on in for the next one. Sign up at Stirrup Queens for the next tour discussing The Handmaid's Tale All you need is a book and a blog!
In the beginning of Chapter 4, Elinor finds it difficult to look at a newborn and its mother in the seat next to her. She says she isn't so much sad that she can't have a baby of her own but that she can't give her husband a child. Do you find your infertility more painful because of your desire to experience pregnancy and childbirth or because of your desire to see your spouse as a father?
I would have to say that it has more to due with the desire to see DH as a dad then the actual pregnant part of it. I never really wanted to get pregnant until I wanted to have "his" child. Adoption had always been the prominent choice in my head until that moment that some natural desire came over me to procreate with my husband. It doesn't really make it any easier but as I continue to remind myself that the goal is to parent, not necessarily be pregnant, the pain seems to lessen until the next person gets pregnant most likely.
I feel like the author was trying to show all sides of these complicated relationships, wanting you to sympathize with Elinor, Ted, Gina and Toby. Did you find yourself able to sympathize, or at least not dislike, all of these characters?
Definitely, even though Ted's behavior was out of line, I still found myself wanting his marriage to ride out the difficult times. Toby, well, I liked him. Winston definitely portrayed a confused 10 year old and one that is a bit offbeat at the same time. Gina and Elinor seemed to be polar opposites and they were both interesting in their unique way.
Elinor's thought on page 47 really struck me: "When Elinor was paying attention to her career, she should have been paying attention to her biological clock. When she was paying attention to her biological clock, she should have been paying attention to her husband." It made me wonder: Am I paying attention now to the things I should be paying attention to now? Are you?
No, I don't think I am paying attention to what I should be. I should be focusing on losing weight, exercising, and getting involved in the community. Yet, I am paralyzed in all ways to do anything about any of it. I let work overrun my schedule so that I don't have time to work out or to volunteer. I run out of the house without preplanning my food for the road. So, no, I am not paying attention to what I should be paying attention to and my dh gets the backlash of anger based on the disappointment from not doing what I know I should be doing instead of what I am doing. I have to focus on my health though... If I don't, pregnancy will never be an option and I won't live as long as I could.
Elinor takes up laundry and Ted works on the hutch. What new hobbies did you pick up or abandon during treatments?
I wish... I have some hobby items stored away that never get worked on. I have a gym membership that is rarely used. I wish that those activities would take the mind into a different direction. I will say that I have immersed myself in books and movies though at times when the angst has been too great to do much else.
How did you feel about Toby? Do you think he manipulated the situation too much? Was it strange to you that Ted was willing to be a father figure to Toby, but did not want to talk about adoption with Elinor?
I thought that Toby was a typical 10 year old that was a bit out of the mainstream. He got tossed into a situation that he didn't want to be in. He was feeling rejection from his father and step mom since they basically kicked him out and sent him to live with Gina, who he did not really like. Toby didn't seem to really like anything about his mother or her life. I think that part of it was typical preteen behavior but part of it was that he thought she could do better and he was grabbing at that with Ted. He knew that even though Ted was married he was the best choice that Gina had made in dating over the past several attempts.
With the exception of the mall scene for the Tutoring interview, I really didn't feel that he was manipulating anything. I think that any kid, who really wanted better for both himself and his mom, probably would have done the same.
I really didn't find it too odd that Ted was willing to be a mentor to Toby and wasn't all that thrilled with the thought of adoption. The process of adoption is very invasive just like other fertility treatments. Tutoring and mentoring Toby was just something that could fill time and would keep him close to Gina, who I think in the end, he was really in love with even though he still loved Elinor.
Intrigued by the idea of a book tour? Jump on in for the next one. Sign up at Stirrup Queens for the next tour discussing The Handmaid's Tale All you need is a book and a blog!
Monday, September 17, 2007
BBBT-- Love and Other Impossible Pursuits
The latest book for the Barren Bitches Book Tour has been Love and Other Impossible Pursuits by Ayelet Waldman. It follows a woman through the adventures of step parenting and infant loss. The relationship between Emilia and William was interesting to see unfold. Emilia's thoughts about William intrigued me. I know that it is hard to learn to love another's child and I thought this particular relationship was difficult because of William's personality. The book was thought provoking and worth a read if you don't mind emotional story lines.
On to the questions, There were many thought provoking questions to choose from which is great but I am limited on time so I only chose three:
Is the way Emilia quantifies loss similar or dissimilar to what we all tend to do? (i.e. her reactions to the miscarriages of a friend and the number of names on a heart of another participant at the walk) Why or why don't we do this?
I think that Emilia is reacting that way that many people do. In my opinion, Emilia's view of others pain was tainted by her belief that she smothered her child.
Everyone of us will most likely believe, in the height of our grief, that our loss is the worst in the world. It is... in our own personal world. Reality is that each loss that a person experiences is at that moment or that period of time, the worst thing that they have gone through. Does it mean that a person who experiences a miscarriage and the loss of the hope of life that goes with it is any less hurt than the woman who has lost her child to preterm birth or the woman that experiences a SIDS death? I don't think so because each of us only has our own rose colored glasses to look through.Yes, we can sympathize and empathize but until it has happened to us, we just don't know the degree of pain.
I do think that some people feel that their pain supersedes others but is it right? I don't think so. Pain is pain, and loss is loss. Yes, there are degrees of loss and some do impact our lives more than others but at one point in every event, we are all experiencing the same loss of hope and level of pain.
Emilia obviously deals with some self-destructive tendencies. Can you relate to her feelings? Have you dealt with self-destructive feelings on your journey to parenthood?
The feeling of failure can be overwhelming at times. Yes, I have acted out in a self destructive manner many times over the last four years. I have a variety of methods... binge eating, drinking in excess, being a awful wife in many ways, and withdrawal from others. The worst days I attempt to soothe myself with all of them. I have found that it doesn't help and makes things worse but it is in and of itself a vicious circle that leads to more self destructive behavior.
Emilia describes in great detail her feelings of guilt regarding Isabel's death. For those of you who have experienced loss, did you feel responsible in some way? How did you handle those feelings?
My situation is unique in that I did not know that I was pregnant when I miscarried. I did not even realize at the time that I was miscarrying. By the time things got sorted out it was long after the fact and the certainty is questionable. The symptoms were there, the timing was right, but I didn't test until after the "weird period with a passing of a large amount of tissue" had occurred. I believe that what I experienced was a miscarriage. More than one doctor has alluded to it but no one has ever come out and said yes... that is what happened. They can't, I get that but others believe that since doctors never said it, it wasn't true. Whatever I experienced, I do feel responsible. I do feel that I am the reason we are childless. On the day that the event occurred, I had overexerted myself for several hours. If I could go back in time, I never would have completed the activity that I did. The money that I received for that day of strenuous work is not worth the pain, hurt, and agony that I have gone through since that time. Yes... I believe that I am responsible for the fact that we don't have a three year old child right now and I don't handle those feelings well. I turn to my self soothing, yet, destructive behaviors and have had many moments of tears, agony, and self defeating thoughts. With time, it gets better but at the same time, this whole journey is tainted by the thoughts that I killed our chance of hope. I keep these feelings to myself... because I am the only one that believes this happened to me. When we are "trying", I am overcautious in the 2WW period of my cycle. I don't want to have to face the feelings of responsibility again if I can help it.
Now head on over to the book tour hub and check out the other blogs participating in this discussion.Want to come along for the next tour? Sign up begins today for tour #7 (Happiness Sold Separately by Lolly Winston) and all are welcome to join along
On to the questions, There were many thought provoking questions to choose from which is great but I am limited on time so I only chose three:
Is the way Emilia quantifies loss similar or dissimilar to what we all tend to do? (i.e. her reactions to the miscarriages of a friend and the number of names on a heart of another participant at the walk) Why or why don't we do this?
I think that Emilia is reacting that way that many people do. In my opinion, Emilia's view of others pain was tainted by her belief that she smothered her child.
Everyone of us will most likely believe, in the height of our grief, that our loss is the worst in the world. It is... in our own personal world. Reality is that each loss that a person experiences is at that moment or that period of time, the worst thing that they have gone through. Does it mean that a person who experiences a miscarriage and the loss of the hope of life that goes with it is any less hurt than the woman who has lost her child to preterm birth or the woman that experiences a SIDS death? I don't think so because each of us only has our own rose colored glasses to look through.Yes, we can sympathize and empathize but until it has happened to us, we just don't know the degree of pain.
I do think that some people feel that their pain supersedes others but is it right? I don't think so. Pain is pain, and loss is loss. Yes, there are degrees of loss and some do impact our lives more than others but at one point in every event, we are all experiencing the same loss of hope and level of pain.
Emilia obviously deals with some self-destructive tendencies. Can you relate to her feelings? Have you dealt with self-destructive feelings on your journey to parenthood?
The feeling of failure can be overwhelming at times. Yes, I have acted out in a self destructive manner many times over the last four years. I have a variety of methods... binge eating, drinking in excess, being a awful wife in many ways, and withdrawal from others. The worst days I attempt to soothe myself with all of them. I have found that it doesn't help and makes things worse but it is in and of itself a vicious circle that leads to more self destructive behavior.
Emilia describes in great detail her feelings of guilt regarding Isabel's death. For those of you who have experienced loss, did you feel responsible in some way? How did you handle those feelings?
My situation is unique in that I did not know that I was pregnant when I miscarried. I did not even realize at the time that I was miscarrying. By the time things got sorted out it was long after the fact and the certainty is questionable. The symptoms were there, the timing was right, but I didn't test until after the "weird period with a passing of a large amount of tissue" had occurred. I believe that what I experienced was a miscarriage. More than one doctor has alluded to it but no one has ever come out and said yes... that is what happened. They can't, I get that but others believe that since doctors never said it, it wasn't true. Whatever I experienced, I do feel responsible. I do feel that I am the reason we are childless. On the day that the event occurred, I had overexerted myself for several hours. If I could go back in time, I never would have completed the activity that I did. The money that I received for that day of strenuous work is not worth the pain, hurt, and agony that I have gone through since that time. Yes... I believe that I am responsible for the fact that we don't have a three year old child right now and I don't handle those feelings well. I turn to my self soothing, yet, destructive behaviors and have had many moments of tears, agony, and self defeating thoughts. With time, it gets better but at the same time, this whole journey is tainted by the thoughts that I killed our chance of hope. I keep these feelings to myself... because I am the only one that believes this happened to me. When we are "trying", I am overcautious in the 2WW period of my cycle. I don't want to have to face the feelings of responsibility again if I can help it.
Now head on over to the book tour hub and check out the other blogs participating in this discussion.Want to come along for the next tour? Sign up begins today for tour #7 (Happiness Sold Separately by Lolly Winston) and all are welcome to join along
Monday, July 16, 2007
"The Kid" by Dan Savage---BBBT
The latest leg of the Barren Bitches Book Tour has been The Kid by Dan Savage. It is a non fiction account of two gay men who are involved in an open adoption. It takes a look at why they decided to adopt, other methods for becoming parents, and the adoption process from start to finish. I have never read Dan Savage's sex advice column before but his style of writing is appealing to me. I will probably seek out the other books that he has written about his family and look for his advice column. The book, at times, invoked strong emotion from me. I wish that instead of reading aloud Not Buying It during our vacation that I had chosen this one instead as I would really love to see DH's response to this book. I know that the Rutherford B Finger chapter would turn him off, however, I don't think that he is alone in that. I had a hard time relating that chapter to the rest of the book. Overall, it was a good book and I will recommend it in the future.
If you were participating in an open adoption, what are the top three questions you would ask the birth mother?
Hmm... I think I would ask pretty basic questions:
1. Why are you putting the child up for adoption?
2. How much contact do you want?
3. Any special talents and/or conditions in either family to watch for?
Savage refers to children in foster care as "damaged goods." How did you react to this? Did you find it offensive or an honest way of expressing why people choose to adopt a newborn rather than a waiting child?
This reference did disturb me when I first read it. After completing the book, I understand his need for using that term. One only has to search on Adopt US Kids briefly to learn that there are very few children that don't have at least minor special needs in any category. My husband and I have been struggling with this decision. In some ways, we feel, that this is an opportunity to take the less traveled road and do some good but on the other hand, it might be easier just to not have to face a difficult situation. Savage's comments about not wanting to "start parenting at a disadvantage" and later on about wanting to start with an even playing field even if there was no guarantee really hit home. I think that many people realize that even with adopting an infant, there is still a chance that something is wrong or may end up wrong later on. However, only with an older child are you 90% certain that some issue will have to be addressed from the beginning. Reality is that everyone has issues and most of them stem from something in childhood. No matter how hard a parent tries, their child will not always be the perfect image of their dreams. However, it does take a special kind of strength to step out of the expected and face the difficult reality.
I think that his comments are an honest portrayal of the children in state care and what many people think about dealing with the issues that these children have.
On p. 164, Dan is terrified of bringing baby items into the house before the adoption is finalized. Will you (or did you) bring items into the house before a birth or an adoption?
Actually, I have changed my opinion on this. Before, I was pro shower, pro preparation. These days... honestly, I think the only thing we will do if we are ever blessed with a child is to clean and paint the room that they would be using and buy a car seat if the child is an infant/toddler. Obviously, we may need to change that theory when it gets closer but I don't want a nursery/child's room all done up and then suffer a loss of any kind. Even if we somehow manage to get pregnant, I don't really want a shower until after the fact. I had changed my opinion before reading the book but I understood where Dan was coming from with that point.
What do you think DJ will think when he reads this book down the line?
I think that if DJ reads the book when he is older it will solidify his understanding of his parents. If he reads it when he is old enough to be considering children, I think that he will understand that his own fears are common. The book doesn't, in my humble opinion, portray anything negative about the process or his fathers feelings about him. There is the part about not feeling bonded right away but if you think of it in a typical Mother/Father situation, I think that a lot of fathers feel the same way at first. But, I don't feel that it should be a contention point if he reads it since I am sure that by now there is a definite bond believe the two.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Love, and Other Impossible Pursuits by Ayelet Waldman (with author participation!).
If you were participating in an open adoption, what are the top three questions you would ask the birth mother?
Hmm... I think I would ask pretty basic questions:
1. Why are you putting the child up for adoption?
2. How much contact do you want?
3. Any special talents and/or conditions in either family to watch for?
Savage refers to children in foster care as "damaged goods." How did you react to this? Did you find it offensive or an honest way of expressing why people choose to adopt a newborn rather than a waiting child?
This reference did disturb me when I first read it. After completing the book, I understand his need for using that term. One only has to search on Adopt US Kids briefly to learn that there are very few children that don't have at least minor special needs in any category. My husband and I have been struggling with this decision. In some ways, we feel, that this is an opportunity to take the less traveled road and do some good but on the other hand, it might be easier just to not have to face a difficult situation. Savage's comments about not wanting to "start parenting at a disadvantage" and later on about wanting to start with an even playing field even if there was no guarantee really hit home. I think that many people realize that even with adopting an infant, there is still a chance that something is wrong or may end up wrong later on. However, only with an older child are you 90% certain that some issue will have to be addressed from the beginning. Reality is that everyone has issues and most of them stem from something in childhood. No matter how hard a parent tries, their child will not always be the perfect image of their dreams. However, it does take a special kind of strength to step out of the expected and face the difficult reality.
I think that his comments are an honest portrayal of the children in state care and what many people think about dealing with the issues that these children have.
On p. 164, Dan is terrified of bringing baby items into the house before the adoption is finalized. Will you (or did you) bring items into the house before a birth or an adoption?
Actually, I have changed my opinion on this. Before, I was pro shower, pro preparation. These days... honestly, I think the only thing we will do if we are ever blessed with a child is to clean and paint the room that they would be using and buy a car seat if the child is an infant/toddler. Obviously, we may need to change that theory when it gets closer but I don't want a nursery/child's room all done up and then suffer a loss of any kind. Even if we somehow manage to get pregnant, I don't really want a shower until after the fact. I had changed my opinion before reading the book but I understood where Dan was coming from with that point.
What do you think DJ will think when he reads this book down the line?
I think that if DJ reads the book when he is older it will solidify his understanding of his parents. If he reads it when he is old enough to be considering children, I think that he will understand that his own fears are common. The book doesn't, in my humble opinion, portray anything negative about the process or his fathers feelings about him. There is the part about not feeling bonded right away but if you think of it in a typical Mother/Father situation, I think that a lot of fathers feel the same way at first. But, I don't feel that it should be a contention point if he reads it since I am sure that by now there is a definite bond believe the two.
Hop along to another stop on this blog tour by visiting the main list at http://stirrup-queens.blogspot.com/. You can also sign up for the next book on this online book club: Love, and Other Impossible Pursuits by Ayelet Waldman (with author participation!).
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